Jack Weinrauch
Interviewer: Marilyn Clayton (for the Britannia Heritage Shipyard Project)
Recorded at the home of Jack & Ann Weinrauch, August 22, 1991
(Project)Tape No. 104:1
FULL TRANSCRIPTION OF TAPE - NO RESTRICTIONS
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JW: Ann and I, we were dancing and we come along side Irvin Barnes, he was the welder, and he was dancing with Doris (Forsyth). And he says to me, he says, ""Hey Jack, I bet you you've never danced with a stockman.""
MC: Oh that's good. So you mentioned before that, you know, the people who worked there were really a great friendly crew.
JW: Oh yeah, they were great to work with.
MC: Oh isn't that nice.
JW: There's another fellow.
UNRELATED CONVERSATION
JW: Adrian Allegretto, now he was a fisherman, he did just some seasonal. Like he'd come to work about April and leave maybe May or June. But Adrian Allegretto, he was there before I was. Doing seasonal work, like you know. And he's, he's a nice guy. He's a nice guy though.
MC: I think that that's actually one of the names that Mary has given me to get in touch with as well. And if I'm not mistaken he lives here in Ladner.
JW: Pardon me.
MC: I think Adrian lives here in Ladner.
JW: No, he's on, he's on East Hastings.
MC: Oh, is he?
JW: His phone number is XXX-XXXX. He'd be glad, he'd be glad to came and have a talk.
MC: So how did he (Adrian) work with Allen Steves as well?
JW: He worked right through 'til the shop closed out.
MC: Okay, so '79 or so. Well, that's great.
JW: Yeah, well, he quit fishing, oh I forgot what year. Then he worked more or less steady there, through the summer and what not.
MC: Okay, I just had a thought here. Just a minute.
JW: He knows quite a bit about ABC and what not.
MC: Does he? I'm just going to turn this off.
Tape turned off
MC: Okay, there. Take two here. What we do is we play the tape back and then write it out. Transcribe it onto paper and then we have someone type it all up after that. So, once its all written out I'll get a copy of it for you. So you can remember what we talked about when we walked through the shipyard and everything, as well.
JW: Were you, were you going to put this in the daily paper or something?
MC: Well, I think a little bit, a little bit of the articles are going to appear in some of the local newspapers.
JW: Richmond Review?
MC: Yes, Richmond Review are some of the people who are interested. But basically the idea of doing these is to get some history background for the Britannia. Its going to be like a Heritage museum, a working museum, a working boatworks museum.
JW: Yeah.
MC: So that's why we're gathering all this information. And its you people who worked there who are helping us formulate the history, because there is very little documented. So we have to capture the people who worked there. Not really capture them, but capture their stories.
JW: What are you going to, kind of amalgamate them together or put them together and make it one story, or something?
MC: Each one of these transcripts will be individual, but we'll be pulling little bits out, little bits of stories.
JW: Yeah, that's what I mean, not the whole thing.
MC: Right and we'll use those for, like tour guide speeches. Because there will be people there guiding groups around the Britannia Site and its so much more interesting if you've got these little stories from people like yourself who have worked there.
JW: Right, right, yeah.
MC: Well, that's where such and such happened. Just like when you were standing in that winch room, that day, and you showed John where the, how the mechanism worked.
JW: That's right.
MC: Well, he didn't know up until then.
JW: Oh, he didn't.
MC: He was guessing how it had worked and it was when you stood there and you worked the actual levers that then it came to life for us. So then we can put it into words for that, when it becomes a tour guide. I don't think you even understood how much you were giving us when we were walking around there, you know, just your bits of information and reliving what it was like to work there.
JW: Yeah.
MC: There's a few little questions that I'll throw out to you as we're, as we're going along but if you think of anything that you want to say, just, you know, add that in. What we want to know now is well, what it was like working there?
JW: Oh, it was great working there. I loved working there! I mean you, you weren't pushed around. Or, maybe I shouldn't say that. But what I mean you were more or less on your own, when you did your work, you did your work. And same as all the rest of them, you know. And we, we cooperated with each other you know. If somebody wanted something done, well, somebody did it for him and that was visa versa too. Like say if a mechanic or something like that, if we wanted something removed or what not, well they'd come and do it and we'd do the same for them, if they wanted something done that they had to have a carpenter, well, we were there.
MC: Just all pushed together.
JW: So it was, it was great. It was great working there.
MC: And your hours, you say you'd start around what?
JW: 8:00, 8:00 till 4:30, 4:30. I got home at about quarter to 5:00. Yeah, 4:30, half hour lunch.
MC: That's right, you lived by General Corrie, you're so close. I guess your lunches and your coffee breaks were all together, were they? Everybody took the same break times?
JW: Yeah, everybody took the same break. It was 10 o'clock and 2:30, that was coffee break.
MC: Did you have a full hour for lunch, or half hour?
JW: No,no, we only had, what was it, we only had 15 minutes I think, if I'm not mistaken. But generally ended up to an half an hour.
MC: And you had to pack his lunch each day Ann?
AW: Oh yes.
MC: Big meat eating sandwiches and such. Oh good.
JW: No it was great. It..
MC: Now you were there for twenty years weren't you?
JW: Twenty. Yeah, twenty years.
MC: Twenty years.
JW: Just about exactly twenty, a little over twenty years. I started there in April '60 and I left there end of June. (1980)
MC: Okay. I understand you came from Stoltz, right?
JW: Right.
MC: Stoltz Boatworks.
JW: Where'd you get that from?
MC: I think it might have been Gerry Miller who told me that.
JW: Oh yeah, yeah, he probably did. Yeah, he knew that. He'd been building boats there for ABC.
MC: Okay. You know, did Allen Steves work for Stoltz as well?
JW: He did. He did. He worked there for about, I don't know, three or four years and then things slackened on and he went to Britannia. And then things got a little worse, I left there in '59. At Stoltz's, in December and I was out of work 'til April and then I got work at ABC. In fact, they were in a rush and then Allen Steves, he recommended to them (recommended to assistant manager, Norm Goble) that I was out of work. That's how I got there.
MC: When you went to Britannia then, there would have been a foreman and that was Allen at that time?
JW: No, no. (correction: Yes, he was a shipwright foreman) When I went to Britannia it was Mr. Shorey, George Shorey. He was the shop foreman. Right. And as far as I know. Buster McKenzie, he was the manager. (Norm Goble was assistant manager) So then, George Shorey, he retired about, about in '64 and then Gerry Miller, took over, as far as I know. And he was the shop foreman, he wasn't there steady. In the, in the fishing season, he left for up north to Good Hope and Rivers Inlet, he was a dispatcher or something, then in the fall he'd be back.
MC: When we were standing in the winch shed, winch room of the shipyard, you were telling us about a funny story where that boat went whoosh.
JW: Yeah, yeah.
MC: What year would that have been?
JW: Oh gee, I don't remember exactly what year that was. Maybe that could have been about, I don't know, I'd say about '60... I'd say about '66 or '67, somewhere around there.
MC: Okay.
JW: Yeah.
MC: And that was when, it just sort of got hung up on the ways? Didn't it?
JW: It got hung up on the ways, it was hung up. Like I said, my opinion was at that time, what he tried to do (Gerry Miller) was he... It was supposed to be launched, I think, that night when the high tide come in. It was one of the bigger boats, it had to go down, on account of the high tide or else it wouldn't have been able to get down. But anyway, he got it down before the tide come in.
MC: That's a good story. Do you know what the name of the boat was?
JW: The Pine Leaf.
MC: Pine Leaf.
JW: It was a packer. It was a packer.
MC: Okay, so the Pine Leaf launching was very rapid, was it?
JW: It was really rapid. It got launched alright. But it went by. It went by. Like I said, I was working on the bow of the seiner, right, right by the ways. I could see what was going on, you know. And all at once it broke loose and whoosh, it went by me. It was lucky that the boat I was on that didn't, wasn't out further towards the ways or it would have got it you know. (Then Gerry got Bob Hendricks, who was working in the shop, to bring a seine boat around and tied onto the Pine Leaf and then the tug of war was on, which finally straightened the 1 1/2"" eyebolt that went through the carriage timber. Then the cable came off and the boat was on its way. It was the first boat ever launched without a high tide in that shop. One of the men working in the shop was a diver, he went down to remove the cement blocks, where then the carriage floated to the top and Allen Steves and myself pulled it back on the ways. Later, Allen Steves operated the winch and we both dry docked and after launched it with no problems. When Allen retired in 1974, I operated the winch and hauled it up and launched it with no problems at all for seven times.)
MC: It was just along the end of the dock was it?
JW: More or less, yeah, yeah.
MC: By the crane?
JW: No, no. No, no, not by the crane.
MC: Okay, the crane's over more, that's right.
JW: Yeah, the crane's over further down. But the ways went down like this you know and I was at the end of the dock, right at the corner there. So I seen everything that was going on. But, I don't know. That's the only thing. Because like I said, when you start launching a boat you have to pull the boat up to get that (safety) dog out (from the gear). There's no way you can get that out (the dog) with (out) pulling it (up). Is pull the boat (up) to loosen it, to pull it back. Well then the boat was free to go. But, my, my thinking was that the dog wasn't taken out. Gerry, I guess forgot about it. I think Gerry forgot about it, the dog, he kept pulling, pulling, pulling. Well, it didn't do any good.
MC: The dog, was that, was that, that little lever?
JW: That little lever.
MC: That little tiny one.
JW: In fact I thought after, that lever should, was supposed to have been put in. Be in there, its loose. I don't know who took that out, never thought of it.
MC: So it should be put in to a locked position?
JW: It should be put in.
MC: Okay.
JW: It should be pushed forward so that... Now that carriage may be tied down so it can't run down.
MC: We don't want another Pine Leaf.
JW: No. I can't understand that, I never thought of that [when I'd seen that].
MC: Okay. I'll make a note of that.
JW: Yeah.
MC: I'll ask John to check.
JW: Unless, unless the carriage is anchored.
MC: Okay.
JW: You know where, where the cable is.
MC: Okay, I'll ask him about that. Now you worked right to the very end? When? 1979 or 19...?
JW: 1980. (June)
MC: Okay.
JW: June. That's...Well, then it stayed open. Harold, oh yeah, Harold Grahn, the late Harold Grahn, he was foreman after Allen Nesbitt retired. But Harold Grahn and Doris (Forsyth) and Jack Deagle, they stayed on for, I don't know, two or three, two, a couple more months after that, till they really closed the doors.
MC: Why did, its called Can Fish right? Can Fish took over? That was?
JW: Canadian Fish?
MC: Yeah.
JW: Well they, ABC, went, they went out of the business, they just sold out. Actually it was an English, English company, you know. Anglo British Colonial Company or something like that.
MC: Its ABC.
JW: ABC.
MC: Did you have much warning when it was taken over (by B.C. Packers)?
JW: Well, there was something. Well, not really 'til, 'til about, lets see now. Like we were quite busy 'til the following spring in 1980. About April, we knew that something was coming up, you know. 'Cause they quit doing all work. Suspended all work, repair work, and what not. We were just there, just putting in time, that's all.
MC: Is that when they did a lot of the stabilization work underneath? Or before that?
JW: Well, before that, they, we didn't do any more. We didn't do. The last year was in '79 I think, where the last repair was done on it. So...
MC: That's when you worked at doing those jobs with Allen Steves and Shin Nakade?
JW: Yeah, yeah, right, yeah. Well, Adrian too.
MC: And Adrian as well.
JW: Adrian was working then too, he was steady there in fact. He, he left before we did, he left in the first part of June I think. I forget, oh it doesn't matter.
MC: So after you left, what did you do at that point after you left?
JW: Oh, I retired.
MC: You retired, okay.
JW: Yeah, I had another year to go, so I retired. No, six months to go.
MC: Good timing for you then.
JW: Yeah, it was good timing actually. But, I thought I'd stay another year before I'd retire, just to get used to it. I missed it, you know, after you retired, as far as I'm concerned, I missed it. But it was, it was a busy place at times. We had as many as seven carpenters at one time working there.
MC: How many boats would you do in a season?
JW: Well, it depends, depends how big a job it was. Sometimes we'd do... Well, we'd have to go through all of them. But the ones that were coming through Government Inspection, they'd come in every four years. Well, they're the ones we, we had to do. They had to be repaired period, because the inspector would just condemn them. So we always generally... Well, he'd come and inspect them and say this had to be done and that had to be done.
MC: And they'd stamp a certificate and off they'd go again?
JW: Well, they'd leave, they'd leave a sheet. What do you call it? Of all the things that had to be done. So we went through most of the fleet. That is, I can't remember exactly how many there was exactly, there must have been about 24, 28 company boats besides, besides the ones dock side that we worked at, they couldn't come up on the ways.
MC: It would be a busy, busy day.
JW: Oh, it was. It was busy from April 'til the end of June.
MC: And then did you do different things in the winter months?
JW: In the winter months we... It was more or less a skeleton crew then. There was four of us, four of us then. We might.. they might give us one boat to do that had to be done, so we'd work on that, the four of us.
MC: When you were doing things like the roof and the pilings and that sort of thing, what time of year would those jobs be done?
JW: Oh those were only seasonal jobs after the boats all left to the fishing grounds.
MC: Sure, that would keep you busy.
JW: We were allowed, we were only allowed so many... They had a budget. We were only allowed so much to do so much, you know. That's why I say, every year we'd do part of the roof, you know, or part of working underneath the building or things like that.
MC: Evidentially there is a movie of the, the roof being repaired. I think Allen Steves took the movie, or had someone take the movie. So we're going to have it put onto VCR type thing and for sure when we get that done, would you like to see it? J H: Yeah. That, that was when, that was when that roof fell down, the front, in the front there.
MC: I think so.
JW: Remember we mentioned it. We, instead of bringing it back out, we just cut if off.
MC: Chopped it off.
JW: Which didn't hurt anything.
MC: No, no. We talked about, you said that you weren't there at the time, but you recall the incident where Allen (Steves) fell off the ways?
JW: I was in the carpentry shop then and I come out and he was sitting, sitting on a block of wood or something and I asked him ""What happened?"". And he said the staging slipped or something and he went down.
MC: And so he was working by himself at that time?
JW: He was working by himself there at that time. But he managed to, oh well like I said, he was, he managed to get out before anybody was there. So, I can't remember, I think I took him home and I asked him if he was, if he was hurt or anything. And but he said, he said he hurt his ribs. He did have his ribs hurt.
MC: I think, I think he had a rib or two broken.
JW: I remembered that, that he mentioned that his ribs were sore.
MC: Oh no.
JW: So, I think I took him home, I'm not sure. Quite sure I took him home.
Unrelated Conversation
JW: He, he was well drenched.
MC: Oh yes.
JW: Did he mention that? Did he?
MC: There were a couple of stories he talked about. One was falling off the roof too, so it might have been at the time of repairing.
JW: That's right. That's before I came there. That was on the south side roof. But he only, he only fell off, that roof is only about eight, eight feet high coming down like, you know. He slipped. They were working on it in the winter time and the old shingles were slippery, you know, where they were putting this, this aluminum sheeting on. So I guess he got onto that slippery shingle and down he went.
MC: So that would have been in the late '60s, he was up there doing that?
JW: That would have been. Wait a minute. Yeah, that would be about in 1960. Yeah, before I came there. Because I went there to see about it, about, about work and they were working on the roof then. That's right. That was in, I forget when it was, in early maybe March or something like that. March or early April.
MC: I was over at Queensborough Shipyards just last week and talking with a fellow named Leif.
JW: Leif Berkedahl?
MC: Yeah, [he's the one.] Did you work with Leif?
JW: Is he working there?
MC: Yes, yeah.
JW: He's working there. That's Queensborough, what do they call it?
MC: That's off of, when you go along Westminster Highway, right along.
JW: Its off the dyke. There's a name for that yard. I forget now.
MC: I think they just call it Queensborough Shipyard.
JW: So he's working there?
MC: That's where he is.
JW: Yeah, well he worked over there, over at Britannia. For, I don't know he how long it was, how many years now. [Maybe about], I couldn't even guess.
MC: I think he was there maybe ten years.
JW: Was he there ten years?
MC: Maybe not quite that long. I can look back in my notes. But, he was, I don't think he was there all that long but he could recall some names and yours was one of the names that he remembered.
JW: Were you over at Queensborough talking to him?
MC: Yeah.
JW: So that's where he's at.
MC: That's where he's at now.
JW: He's still with B.C. Packers.
MC: Well...
JW: Working.
MC: Is that how it works if you [ ]?
JW: Well, he's seasonal too.
MC: Okay.
JW: Well, he'd go up to. I don't know if he still does, he'd go up to Namu and take care of the mechanical work over there on the boats.
MC: I'm not sure if he does that now. If memory serves, I think he might be even living here in, in Ladner
JW: In where.
MC: In Richmond. He doesn't live that far away, anyway.
JW: Oh, in Richmond.
MC: Yeah, I can look up his phone number if you'd like.
JW: He used to live in Delta. Along River Road years ago. Years ago.
MC: I'll have to look up his, his information. I meet so many people that sometimes I forget [their information].
JW: We haven't heard from him for quite sometime. We used to go out together. You know, to their Norwegian Community Centre, him and his wife and Ann and I and his friends. We used to have alot of fun.
MC: I talked to just briefly, last friday. He was talking about, you know, life stories and all the rest. He did mention that his wife has passed away.
JW: Yeah.
MC: So that he's just on his own now.
JW: Yeah, that was, that was kind of sad. He was up there, up at Namu.
MC: ... at the time.
JW: Yeah.
MC: Okay. We were talking about pickled herring and things. You know roll mops and pickled herring and things like that. And he was telling me how he used to do a lot of that himself. Do the preservation of the pickled herring.
JW: Yeah, they used to do a lot of that. She, his wife gave Ann her, their recipe.
MC: So do you do it too?
JW: Not any more. We don't get the herring like we used to when I was working there. Well, I could go and get them, you know, but I don't like standing up in lines.
MC: Okay. I know they still do those herring runs and the sales. They have them up on the, down in the Steveston area.
JW: Oh yeah, they, at Christmas time for the Orphanage and whatnot.
MC: Yeah, they have one for the Orphans Fund, and then they have two more quiet private ones. I should let you know when those ones are because I don't think there's great big long line ups.
JW: You mean a private boat or something?
MC: Well, its not really a private sale but it's ... What it is, is less advertised. So...
JW: Oh I see. Never heard of it.
MC: That's how less quiet it is.
JW: But is it for, for charity too?
MC: Well, I think what the funds go to... We were on a walking tour yesterday with Edith Turner, through Steveston, and she was saying, what was it, the Fisherman's Union. There's that fisherman's home in Steveston, just off Moncton Road. There was a building that used to be the old telephone station.
JW: Telephone building. Telephone on No.1 Road.
MC: Bill Rigby, Bill Rigby Manor, do you know where that is?
JW: The where?
MC: The Bill Rigby Manor.
JW: No.
MC: Okay, its right there. I think it is First, First and Moncton. There's an area right there. Okay. From what I could understand there's a Fisherman's Union that does this fund raising.
JW: Oh yeah.
MC: And they have either one, two or three of these herring sales and the funds that they raise go to things like the Bill Rigby Manor and preservation and I guess funding the boats to go back out and do the herring runs.
JW: Paying the expenses and what not, yeah. Edith Turner, who is she?
MC: Okay, she's with the Steveston Museum.
JW: Yeah but who is she? Is she related to....
MC: Her husband fishes.
JW: Her husband is, what's his name?
MC: I don't know.
JW: That would be, would it be, Ron, Ron Turner's son's wife?
MC: They, she came here in about the '60s, I think.
JW: Oh, they come out here, in the '60s, oh well...
MC: She did anyway.
JW: She could be married to Ron Turner's son. Cause they only had one son I believe.
MC: Okay. She's very active in the historical aspects of the Steveston area. She took us on a walking tour yesterday and part of what she explained was how they raise money through these herring sales to do specific things in the community.
JW: In fact I think he's still living in the old house on, on Chatham and Fourth, I think. A big house.
MC: Could be, because I know when we met Edith yesterday she walked to meet us and she was there within a very short time.
JW: Oh yeah. Could be, yes.
MC: Have you been to that museum?
JW: No.
MC: You should.
JW: Oh that.... Where about is it?
MC: It was a post office, it is a post office now, but it was a bank and it was a doctors office. Its just down from the....
JW: On Moncton Street?
MC: Yeah, yeah.
JW: There's a bank, Royal Bank. The Royal Bank.
MC: That's right, across the street from the Royal Bank.
JW: Pardon me.
MC: Its right across the street from the new Royal Bank.
JW: Oh I see, yeah.
MC: You should go in there.
JW: The old Royal Bank.
MC: Yeah, go up stairs and they've got all kinds of old equipment from the fishing era and... You'd probably enjoy going in there.
JW: I'll have to go out there. Maybe, maybe... I sold all my caulking tools.
MC: Oh did you?
JW: I had a lot of them and this guy that bought them, he says he wants to donate it to that.
MC: Oh, to the museum.
JW: Yeah, I'll have to go and have a look and see if my caulking tools are there.
MC: Some of your things are still there, yeah. We talked once about pictures and you felt that you may have a picture of the crew.
JW: Gosh, I haven't, I never looked.
MC: Okay, well if you come across....
JW: If I do, I'll bring them over.
MC: Yeah. It would be just terrific if we could take a print off those kind of things and then keep them in a, like a record file.
JW: Actually, it was all just.....
MC: Just the workers?
JW: The roof of the west side of the building, where we, when we first started to build. I took it in, I took it out for... It shows, not as good 'cause I didn't have tele (telephoto), what do you call it?
MC: One of these long things.
JW: [Long lens] I just had an ordinary camera.
MC: Right, right.
JW: So....
MC: Well, you mentioned that when the, when everything closed down in '79, '80, all of the equipment was moved and relocated.
JW: Yeah.
MC: Do you remember seeing that happen? Or....
JW: I was, I was there one time when they were removing the stuff, just, just went to see what everything was like. That was in, I think in October, when after, after the late Harold Grahn passed away.
MC: What did he work as?
JW: Oh, he was the foreman.
MC: He was the foreman.
JW: He was the foreman. Like I said, it was him, Doris, and Jack Deagle, they were the last there.
MC: Okay.
JW: So after that, well, then they closed it down. Then they stripped it. Most of it went, most of it went to Nelsons. All of it went, as far as I know. And then they took it over there and worked it over. They took the steam box and some of it went to Namu, the band saw, steam box, the boiler. I didn't look if the boiler was in the old shop.
MC: You'll have to come back.
JW: You know where, where they're building the skiff. I didn't look to see if that boiler was still there.
MC: Okay. That would be right down at the very back.
JW: Yeah, that little opening there, yeah.
MC: I think it is.
JW: Yeah. It was there the last time I was there, that's probably a couple of years ago.
MC: Because the old steam box...
JW: Pardon me.
MC: The old steam box is still in there.
JW: Yeah, the old steam box and the boiler was still there. It was in good shape. I don't know how good shape it is now cause both of them they were re-tubed, you know.
MC: When would that be?
JW: In, '68, '69, about '74, somewhere around there. They did it right there in the shop, the welder did it.
MC: I know, the other thing you said that, that deck outside was all replace. And that was....?
JW: It was completely renewed, Allen Steves and I did that.
MC: And that was about what time?
JW: That was in 1963, because what I remember about it was Cec Fisher was the only one that, that operated that crane there. And we all, we all gathered to lift up the big timbers you know, to set down. So that's, that's how I remember when it was done, '63.
MC: You operated the crane later on though didn't you?
JW: Oh yeah, I operated it from '77, around '77, '78, off and on. Most of the time. (correction: operated the crane from '74 to '80)
MC: Right. Would you also have operated that, the winch outside for the hoist? Did you work that?
JW: The big one?
MC: Yeah.
JW: Oh, I always did that.
MC: Did you.
JW: After Allen Steves left, yeah. He used to operate that.
MC: Right.
JW: And when he left he showed me how to operate it. So there was, you had to have about three, including myself, there was three other men to, to dry dock a boat. You know they'd go on a boat, you know and dry dock it, pull it onto a carriage and what not.
MC: Now you explained also, that there used to be a ramp down off the other side of the hoist, wasn't there?
JW: Oh, that was on the... You mean the hoist, that boat hoist? Yeah, there used to be a good ramp, there was a float along side of it and that ramp went down onto it, you know and as the tide come up it rolled, you know and then you went along the floats where the seine boats used to be tied up in there.
MC: Now the seine boats that were tied there, were they waiting to be repaired?
JW: That's right.
MC: If you, actually, if you look on the deck of the wharf there you can see bolt marks on it. I bet that's where the old ramp used to be attached? Where there's, there's sort of marks there.
JW: Where the ramp was?
MC: Yeah, just the other side of the hoist, the big hoist.
JW: The big crane? The big crane. What kind of marks?
MC: Well, you know, on the deck of the, it looks like there was a panel of some sort that might have attached the ramp that went down, just over in behind.
JW: No, I have no idea about that.
MC: Well, we'll have to bring you back so you can look at it.
JW: Oh there, there. There, the marks will probably be there where the ramp was bolted down on top of the deck and then it went down.
MC: Yes, that's what I mean.
JW: Oh yeah.
MC: I think you can still see where that might have been, so. Now in the inside, what kind of machinery would you have operated in there?
JW: Just a carpenter, just a carpenter.
MC: Okay. And everybody sort of moved around from machine to machine? Depending on what they were working on?
JW: Yeah, what they were working on. The mechanics they had their machinery in there. The lathe, well years ago they had a lathe man, a machinist like, like Cec Fisher. And then after that, what do you call him? Lester Benham, he, he was the lathe man, machinist there for, I don't know how many years.
MC: Would he have come after Cec Fisher then?
JW: Pardon me.
MC: Would he have followed Cec Fisher? Lester.
JW: Yeah, he followed, yeah. He was a great guy.
MC: Now, there was a name that came up as well, George Sturgeon. Do you remember that name?
JW: Oh yeah, he was a blacksmith. He was quite a character. He was a blacksmith and a welder, a good one too. When he behaved.
MC: So he added some fun to the work hours did he?
JW: Yeah, but he always did his work.
MC: Did he?
JW: Yeah. Good work too.
MC: Was he the kind who would play jokes on people, or just full of good stories.
JW: No, I can't recall him playing jokes. I don't know. I can't recall that.
MC: He was just a character.
JW: Yeah, he was a character. He was full of hell. Yeah, yeah. He was there for quite some time.
MC: Was he?
JW: Yeah.
MC: Was he there probably the whole time that you were there? Or more towards the end?
JW: No, no.
MC: The beginning?
MC: So, well, he was a light hearted person while he was there, was he?
JW: Yeah.
MC: Different names crop up all the time and...
JW: But he was a good... Anything you want done he, he did it for you. Did a good job too. And when he made it, it fit it, the way it was supposed fit, you know. His blacksmithing and what not. He did a lot of blacksmithing then. Where after that the welder used a lot of the welder torch and what not, to heat their steel, and what not, and bend it, and what not.
MC: Well, was there another blacksmith hired on after George?
JW: Yeah. Who was it. Fellow by the name of Nelson (Stan), he wasn't there very long.
MC: Okay. We get these names cropping up all the time and try to put them in order.
JW: And then there was Storochenko, he was there for awhile after that, 'til Irvin Barnes, 'til they come over from Canadian Fish. Well then, he was a welder. He was quite a character too.
MC: Does the name Ed Ljunggren mean anything to you? Ljunggren?
JW: Oh that, Ed Ljunggren...
MC: Could be before your time.
JW: Before my time.
MC: Okay.
JW: I never, I never met him.
MC: I think he might have been a, like a foreman / watchman at one time. Living right on the site, just... But it could have been, that could have been maybe the '50s or so, the '40s and '50s.
JW: He was a carpenter I believe.
MC: That's right. It was a combination.
JW: Yeah, he probably, after that he was watchman. You know, probably I think. But I've never, he wasn't there when I come there.
MC: Okay, you just recall his name.
JW: And then there was another, Tom, Tom Young, he was an old timer from working for there. You ever heard of him? Have you ever heard of him?
MC: And would he have been... I think I have see that name.
JW: He used to be on the packers. Go out on the packers and then do seasonal work at the, at the shop.
MC: As a foreman?
JW: He did all the rigging and what not.
MC: Okay. Do you remember working, working with Tom Young, or was he also before your time?
JW: No, no, I worked with him for, 'til, 'til ABC sold out. Yeah, yeah. He was a nice guy too. But he knew the coast, he was up and down there. Tell you stories about the coast and what not, you know.
MC: So you gave us the information about Doris. Now we didn't know the name of, of the female employee in the stores. We didn't know who that was until you told us.
JW: You didn't know?
MC: No.
JW: Then how did you know that there was a female employee there?
MC: Gerry remembers, Gerry Miller remembers that there was someone there, but that was after he left.
JW: Oh yeah, quite a while after.
MC: That she came on, on ...
JW: Because Dave Ingles, he left, he was there for some, quite some years. There was another guy that was there for, he was there before I was, in the stock room. And he left in '72, I think he retired. And then, I forget, there was one or two after that and they didn't turn out and then Doris (Forsyth) applied for it. And that was about in '70, '76 or something like that. I think '76.
MC: Tell me again about that storm that happened that blew the roof off. That was in....
JW: Well, that was in the winter, that was in the, at night time. We weren't there.
MC: You weren't there, okay.
JW: No. It just loosened it up. If I can remember it loosened it up and it collapsed. Like I said, the wind come underneath of it and lifted it up I guess, and when it come down, it went right down. So... It was something. I wasn't that, that serious, if I remember. Good thing maybe it was at night that nobody was working on a boat or something like that.
MC: Did you look up and decide how to repair it?
JW: Yeah, well Allen Steves he was, he did that. Decided, decided not to put it all the way back and just put it the way it was. Which was good.
MC: Sure. Jack would that have been the same time that the very high tide came in as well? You mentioned that.
JW: I can't remember that.
MC: Well, you mentioned one time, there was the story about the very, very high tide that came in and flooded inside.
JW: Oh yeah, that in fact it happened a couple of times but one time it was about 6 inches. Like I said, there was a water mark, and I... Dave Ingles put a mark there, and I couldn't find it.
MC: Yeah, water mark in the stores?
JW: Maybe I didn't.... Inside his stockroom, inside the stockroom. And I didn't, well maybe I'd have found it if I'd looked more. But it seems to me he put a mark on it where the tide, where the water was up. Well, he was slushing around with gum boots in there, you know. And going out, one guy, George Shorey, well he was quite up in years you know. So, he was okay 'til we got out, you know. Well he had gum boots, but there it was quite deep already, you know, when it was down, the tide by the number 2 shop. So who was it? Joe Murvick, one of the mechanics, he says, ""Hey, hey George, I'll take you across"". So he, George, Joe give him a piggy back ride across, took him across the water to his car.
MC: That would have made a good picture.
JW: But the tide was high enough it kind of buggered up, ruined, well not ruined the brakes but when you drove out, it was in, the water was in the brakes, so you had to be careful when you.... You noticed it when you got on to the road.
MC: You go skidding right over.
JW: The brakes, the brakes didn't hold very good 'til you got going, you know, and warmed up and dried them out.
MC: What year would that have been Jack?
JW: Oh gee, that's hard to guess. George Shorey was still there, that would have been about oh '60... '62, or '63. Yeah, he was still working there. Cause he, he retired in '64, towards the end of the year somewheres around there, he retired.
MC: So this was in his later days. I think you mentioned that George (Shorey) had an accident and fell off that old hoist one time too?
JW: Well, there, there was an opening there, remember how I was showing you that? Where they had the planks out, it wasn't that big, there was an opening about this wide...
MC: About 2 by 2 (feet) maybe.
JW: You know, when they were working on the gill netters, to put up their, to put up their rudders and you know, it would go down and what not and pull them out. So that was happened to be opened, somebody didn't close it. Now I don't know how it happened, but I know he fell down. He went down. But the tide was high. But I can't recall who helped him out, was it Joe Murvick. Joe Murvick I think helped him out.
MC: Would that also have been in the late '60s then?
JW: That was, no that was in the early '60s.
MC: Early '60s, probably same, about the same timing.
JW: Yeah. Because like I said, he retired in '64, somewheres around in there, in '64.
MC: We've got so much information this is terrific. I think what I remember you telling me. To begin with you were born in Saskatchewan.
JW: Yeah.
MC: Right. And you were there until, sort of early '20s or so and then came out this way?
JW: No.
MC: When you were about 20?
JW: I came out in '39. I went through what they call the ""Dirty Thirties"" right through from '30, 1930 to about '39. I figured I had enough. As far as I was concerned, I still do, consider it was a waste of time. Lost years you know.
MC: Saskatchewan, what place in Saskatchewan?
JW: Lampman.
MC: Lampman?
JW: Yeah, Lampman. Your, one of the girls there.
MC: Yeah, Marie.
JW: She asked me cause she's from Saskatoon.
MC: I think she might have lived fairly close to that area.
JW: No she was quite a ways away.
MC: Oh, was she?
JW: We were, we were only about 25 miles away from the border.
MC: So from Lampman you came right to Vancouver?
JW: Vancouver, yeah.
MC: Is that when you started in the North Vancouver Shipyard? Or you went into the army?
JW: No, no, I started in the North Van Shipyard in 1940, late '40, fall of 1940, I started there.
MC: So before that, is that when you went into the services?
JW: No, after that.
MC: After that.
JW: I went into the services in 1942.
MC: So you went from North Van, to the services, to Stoltz?
JW: Yeah.
MC: And then Britannia?
JW: Yeah. So, I learned most my, I learned most of it at Stoltz.
MC: Did you?
JW: That is shipwrighting.
MC: How did you decide to start? You know when you went to North Van, or to the boatbuilding over there, what made you decide to go into that line of work?
JW: Well, I was out of work, and see he's, Bob Stoltz, is brother to Ann (Jack's wife).
MC: Okay, so you were already married at that time.
JW: Yeah, yeah.
MC: Okay.
JW: So he asked me if I wanted to go to, come and work for him. So that's how I start over there. But I learned, I learned a lot from Allen Steves. That kind of, that kind of work. Alot of it. Even when I went to Britannia Shipyard I learned a lot, still learned a lot from him.
MC: He was a good teacher was he?
JW: Yeah, well he was in that, in that most of his life. You know, building boats and what not.
MC: You must have really enjoyed working there with Allen, did you?
JW: Oh, I did, yeah, yeah. He was a good, good man to learn from.
MC: Allen's going to come over. Now, I'm not exactly sure of the timing. But Harold Steves his nephew, is going to arrange for Allen to come over and I'll let you know...
JW: Yeah, you do that.
MC: ... at that time. He'll come to the, come to the shipyard and it would be wonderful if you were available at the same time.
JW: I'd like to see him. That would be nice, be very nice.
MC: I'm sure it would, lots of good memories.
JW: I haven't seen him since, he dropped into our place when he was living at Mission. Oh my, that's about five years ago or six years ago and I haven't seen him since then.
MC: We'll do what we can to get you back together again.
JW: Well, if he comes, well there's no problem there, you know, if you could let me know. If you don't mind.
MC: Well, we'd like to do another interview of Allen Steves there in the shipyard.
JW: He should be able to tell you a lot.
MC: Alot of stories, yeah. And there's a fellow Mike McIntyre, who works for Rogers Cable, and he's going to help up by coming down and filming the episode as well for the archive. Capture, you know, the background of the story. But actually see Allen as well. It would be terrific if you felt like coming down and joining us that day.
JW: Who is McIntyre?
MC: Mike McIntyre is a fellow who works for Rogers Cable TV.
JW: Oh I see.
MC: And so he has all the expertise of operating camera machinery and the audio so that we get good sound. As I said when we tried to do it, the other day, it was fairly good in some of the areas but most of the machines, like this small one picks up the background noise. Like the telephone.
JW: Oh yeah. Is it in there?
MC: Oh yeah, for sure.
JW: So you're just about going to make a movie out of it are you?
MC: There will be alot of cassettes, just like that yeah. We want to have a, all sorts of visual and audio things for people to look at and... See its only by talking with you people who worked there, that we can recapture what it was like.
JW: Right. So when the museum is set up, or whatever, you're going to have, what I mean....
MC: Tapes.
JW: Pardon me.
MC: Like tapes.
JW: Yeah, tapes or like pictures.
MC: We don't know Jack, exactly what the format will be once its all in working order. But our job right now is to get these tapes. The visual tapes and the audio tapes like this, so that we've got material to work from. You know, information.
JW: Yeah. That takes a lot, that takes a lot of time.
MC: It does. But its really interesting to put it all together. J W; I'm sure glad they were able to keep that shipyard. You know, I was always thinking, ""I wonder how long that shipyard is going to stay there before a fire got in there?"" It could have happened.
MC: That's right. Its all fenced off now. You saw how when you came it was a big wire fence and you had to honk to get in. Having done that specifically so that people can't get in.
JW: Well, what I mean, is they still can come in from...
MC: ..from the water.
JW: From the water and I guess that's where a lot of them come in cause it was fenced in then. And there wasn't that much damage done when they first fenced it.
MC: There's actually a couple of people who have their boats just off the end of the wharf and they, they work like resident caretakers or watchmen.
JW: Oh yeah.
MC: To keep an eye on it.
JW: You mean by that float over there?
MC: Well, there's one down by the float, there's a Japanese fellow who has his boat down there. And then that Mike McIntyre, that I explained who does the filming for Rogers, he has his boat just, actually just down over the other side of the crane, right there. He lives on his boat.
JW: What's he got, a pleasure boat?
MC: Well, I'm not sure what it is, it looks like it might have been a fishing boat at one time. And he's working on it. So he's, he's docked right there so he can keep an eye on what comes and goes.
JW: So he stays there all the time? Lives on the boat? Oh that's a good thing.
MC: That's, its very good. Forewarned, the people, you know anybody if there's, somebody's trying to break in or if there were problems.
JW: I was going to ask you, it slipped my mind. How far does the property go?
MC: Okay.
JW: On the other, on the east side, they tore all that, that dock off on the east side.
MC: I think it just goes from that property along up to.... Did you see where that old boardwalk was?
JW: Old boardwalk? No.
MC: It just goes right along that cannery line there, through the grove and up to the fence.
JW: Oh yeah, not too far from the boat shop.
MC: No, but it does take in that...
JW: On the east side.
MC: Yeah, but it does take in that grove area on the east side.
JW: Yeah, I think, would it be about 20 feet from the boat shop? Somewhere around there do you know?
MC: Maybe a bit more than that.
JW: Oh, and what about on the west side.
MC: Now that goes right... Did you see how far the fence extends? It goes down right past the...
JW: The cannery.
MC: No, it doesn't include the, that cannery. It includes, there's a long building that we call the long house, it would have been a residence.
JW: Yeah.
MC: There's a net shed on the water side, okay. And then there's the remains of...
JW: That big net shed?
MC: Yeah, that's included. And then there's the Kishi Boatworks that burnt down. It was relocated there, and it burnt down there on the site.
JW: Yeah, they had it burnt there.
MC: Okay, just the other side of that there's a fence, and...
JW: That far?
MC: It goes, yeah. Quite a large area. I think it's about eight acres in total.
JW: Including the shipyard. Oh I see.
MC: Its quite a large area. So that's the whole area. They want to have created into a working boatworks museum and a walking area so that its not going to just be the shipyard or the boatworks but there will be other facilities there on site to try and relive what it was like for the Japanese people living there.
JW: Used to live there. Well, that one, that one, or was there two of them? One beside what we used the lumber shed (building #12).
MC: Yes.
JW: That used to be a boat yard, boat shop too, at one time. Years ago. But anyway that one (building #13), that was like a little condominium in there. There was families living in that little old one, the first one there. And then the one further, next to it, I think, that was the same where, Japanese people used to live in there, years ago.
MC: That's right. We'll have to get you back down onto the site because we actually didn't walk down that way. But some of those buildings are still standing. You probably remember. Do you remember actual families who lived in there?
JW: No, no, I wouldn't, that I wouldn't know. I'm just going by what was, what's in the building. How they were, you know, how the suites or whatever, living quarters were laid out. You could see how it was....
MC: Divided up.
JW: Plastered and what not.
MC: We've actually been inside there, hunting through and you can see remnants of old wall paper.
JW: That's right.
MC: And behind the wall paper are old newspapers.
JW: Yeah.
MC: So you get an idea of how long ago people lived there.
JW: What you call him, had his net shed there, Harry Tabada and his Dad used to have their net shed in there 'til they moved over to the big one. The one that they....
MC: The Gulf of Georgia?
JW: No, the one right by the boat shop there, they demolished it.
MC: Okay.
JW: It was that big one there.
MC: Oh, I know, just by the trailer on the site there.
JW: Yeah, right by the trailer. Who, who demolished that?
MC: I'm not sure. But you said you helped to... Did you help to build that one?
JW: No, no.
MC: No, somebody did.
JW: No. They did a lot of work, they spent quite a bit of money doing the foundation on there in '70, wait a minute '60, about '68. They completely did the bottom part, the foundation on it, put new timbers in it and what not. So and then that big one that belongs to that there too, on the water side. Just the one.
MC: Its all covered in....
JW: There's two of them.
MC: Yeah, there's two of them, both of them do.
JW: Do they? That far?
MC: It just stops by all the black berries there, and on the other side there's the old, old cannery. Which I don't, I don't know who that belongs to.
JW: Yeah, well that was the old cannery, ABC cannery.
MC: It stops just before there.
JW: I understood they wanted to build high rises in there.
MC: That's, I think that's more in behind.
JW: Further down. But they want to build high rises on this side of the dyke the way I understood it.
MC: What we'll have to do is get you to come back for a second visit and then we'll walk down that area. We used up most of our time going through the shipyard.
JW: Just the shipyard. But, but going down there, I wouldn't, I wouldn't know much of people living there at that time, you know. Just what I've seen, what's there, you know.
MC: Well you know, they're going to start having tours very soon on the... And if you want to bring Ann down one day and walk around and just listen to the little talk.
JW: It would be really interesting.
MC: I think you would enjoy it.
JW: Shorey, Mr. and Mrs. Shorey, they lived by that, by the cannery there behind the store for years. The house isn't there anymore.
MC: No its not there. And Barbara, Barbara Shorey, who was their daughter. She's married her name is Barbara Heeron now.
JW: Oh, I don't know her.
MC: And she's going to be coming to the site next tuesday to talk to us because she, as a youngster, she grew up there playing on the site. And she and Gerry Miller were good friends.
JW: Well, I imagine they would.
MC: They grew up together.
JW: They went to school together.
MC: They went to school together and grew up together.
JW: 'Cause Gerry Miller's folks lived around in there too.
MC: That's right. I think at the foot of No. 2 Road.
JW: Could be, yeah.
MC: So they were probably about the same era, and they played together there on the site when they went to school.
JW: This Barbara, where does she live?
MC: She, right now she's in Point Roberts staying at a family cabin or home there.
JW: They had, they had a cabin there.
MC: Well that's the one she's at right now. She's still at that one.
JW: To tell you the truth I never knew that they had a daughter.
MC: A son....
JW: They had a son.
MC: ....and Barbara as well. But she, she lives permanently down in the states.
JW: Oh, I see.
MC: She just comes up to visit in the summer time, and stays there and then she has an opportunity to visit her mother who's in the Lions Manor. Dorothy.
JW: Her mother is in the Lions Manor?
MC: Yes.
JW: Mrs. Shorey?
MC: Yes.
JW: Is that right?
MC: I talked with her on the phone just last week. She's must be about 92 or 94.
JW: Yeah I guess so. Is she well?
MC: She's fine. She, she, her eye sight is quite poor.
JW: I'm going to look her up. We go over there once a week.
MC: Oh you should do that, she's on the fifth floor.
JW: Fifth floor.
MC: Fifth floor of Lions Manor. Might even be room 505.
JW: That's the, the nursing home place?
MC: Yes, its on Fentimen Place.
JW: Yeah.
MC: Its very easy to find.
JW: We, we've got. There's a lady there we've known for years and years, she's in there.
MC: She would think that was wonderful if you were to give her a phone call.
JW: We're going to look her up. Because our daughter-in-law, her mother, seems to me Mrs. Shorey looked after her when she was small.
MC: Oh really.
JW: Her name was, married name was Gilmore. Ann, what was her, Jean's name?
AW: Simmons.
JW: No it wasn't, no it wasn't Simmons.
AW: No, who was the one that lived back behind...
JW: There's two, two or three of them they stayed there at Shoreys, they looked after, when they were small.
AW: Who was the one that lived sort of in the back of Mini over there?
JW: Mini?
AW: You know what's her name, she's still in the old house.
JW: Oh yeah, that was another sister.
AW: Yeah okay, so what was their name. She died on the golf course. That was Mrs. Gilmore's sister, wasn't it?
JW: Yeah. There was three sisters. Simmons, Mrs. Simmons, and her and Jean. Margaret, Jean, and what was the other one? One passed away with cancer.
AW: I really didn't know.
JW: If I'm not mistaken. I can't remember her name.
AW: But I can't remember the one behind there, because I never really knew her.
MC: You know, I bet if you talked with Mrs. Shorey. Actually her... I'm not certain whether she was remarried. But she goes by the name Mackenrot.
JW: Yeah, she (Mrs. Shorey) remarried, yeah.
MC: That's the name.
JW: They lived on the North Shore for quite some time.
MC: Dorothy Mackenrot, that's the name she's under now. And I think it's room 505, in the Lions Manor. But I called her just last week, and she's bright, really bright.
JW: Is that right.
MC: She's got one... You know, she just loves to talk. Her eyesight is, is poor.
JW: Can she recognize you?
MC: I think if you're up close enough to her she can. She wrote out a little letter, about a year ago, recalling her life there on the site with George and its wonderful. So, she has some visibility, but not 100%. But, you know, she certainly can remember alot of different stories.
JW: We're going to go over there and very shortly next time. We'll have to go over there next week and see Doris and we'll look her up. I'd love to see her again.
MC: Well, she would like to come back down onto the site again, she did come by the office where we worked. Came by about a month ago now. Her daughter, Barbara, brought her down, and she loves to talk. She can remember alot of the stories.
JW: She'd know a lot. That's oh gee, that's going way back in fact. George, her husband, he started that shipyard, that's the way I understand. When they first turned it over and into a shipyard. And he told me a lot of stories at that time, years ago, of his, of his experience going up north and what not and coming down here, and what not.
MC: He would have had to... We've heard stories about him being down there watching the boats at night time.
JW: Yeah.
MC: Because he was responsible for everything. He had such a love for the whole site.
JW: Oh yeah, did he ever. He was in love with that place. But those days there wasn't that much, you know, vandalism, those days.
MC: No, no.
JW: And they still had the watchman from the cannery going back and forth. But George Shorey, he's quite a character. You'd be doing something, working, and he'd come talking to you and okay, he'd tell you stories and that was always great. And he kept on, and then he'd start. Sometimes like when I was doing it I knew I had to get back there, to do my work and I'd start walking away and he'd walk in front of me and stop me. No, no, I couldn't leave, couldn't leave until he was finished. In fact, Adrian, he says to me, ""If he ever talks to you, don't walk away from him. Just stay there and let him go on."" Which was very interesting you know. But one time, I was by the boiler you know, like I was steaming a plank for a boat, so I went in there to check the boiler for water and I had to put water in and what not and George comes along. Well, then he started talking and finally he just kept in front of me. And finally I thought why not sit down and listen. So then after he finished the story well, it was okay. But there's twice I tried to walk away and twice he went in front of me and stopped me. So I couldn't walk away. Well, it was, it was fun.
MC: In that, know where the blacksmith area is and down at the other end was where George's desk used to be.
JW: Yeah.
MC: You mentioned there being a small....
JW: Yeah, 24 inch lathe.
MC: 24 inch lathe.
JW: I always called it his play toy. He'd use it.
MC: Did he.
JW: It was a cute little lathe. It was made for doing small stuff, you know. And I always called it his play toy. It was right beside his desk there.
MC: Did he know that's what you called it?
JW: No.
MC: Probably not.
JW: He wouldn't have cared anyway if I'd have told him.
MC: Now let me see. I think I have gone over just about every one the little points that I wanted us to cover. The only other thing. You mentioned high tides that came in, you remember some of the high tides that came up and left their water marks, but do you remember the river ever freezing?
JW: Oh yeah. The worst was that I seen it and that's, I'll never forget that, that's the time when ABC closed up and we had just, we didn't do any work 'cause everything was stopped. All we did was look after the boats, pump them out, you know, so they don't, you know, flood. And we were around the shop a lot, didn't do any repair work or nothing. But any way, it was frozen right across.
MC: Right over to Shady Island?
JW: Oh yeah, I walked, I walked right across. You could skate. Some people were skating further down. And it was froze up for quite some time. And there was one boat, by the, by one of them big seine sheds, the big one. There was one boat that had to be taken out. In fact I believe it sunk right there, if I'm not mistaken. And that was the Belina, I'm not sure now. But I know the Belina sunk there one time. Now whether it was then. But they had to bring in, they had to bring a tug in to break up the ice, to get the boat out.
MC: When would that have been?
JW: That was in '68, fall of '68 'til '69 and it stayed right through from, I'd say from November 'til March, solid ice.
MC: You say the Belina sunk, why would it have sunk? Because of the ice?
JW: I think because the ice crushed it, you know, and I think it got a leak. I'm quite sure it was at that time. Cause I remember they had to bring in big pumps to pump her out to get her afloat and what not. But there was other times when it was froze too, but not as solid as that.
MC: Not as solid as that.
JW: Not as solid as that.
MC: Well Jack, I think I've got about, just about exhausted all the questions that I can think of. So cooperative with your time, its wonderful. I'm going to make sure that when Allen, when we find out when Allen Steves is coming over we'll get in touch with you and give you some warning so that if you are available it would be wonderful if you could join us.
JW: Yeah, I'd be pleased, I'd be pleased to see him. That would be great.
MC: We've sent out a note to Buster McKenzie as well and he's going to come over in September. Hopefully come over in September and talk with Norm Gobles and Gerry. Get a few people together at that time.
JW: McKenzie, he's living on Gabriel Island, isn't he?
MC: He's in Ganges on Salt Spring.
JW: Yeah, somewheres around there. I heard he moved over there. And Gobles is in Vancouver.
MC: Actually I think Richmond.
JW: Richmond.
MC: I can get you all this info.
JW: It doesn't matter, it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter. Last time I seen Gobles is when they had a buy back over here in Ladner. Government buy back.
MC: Oh yes.
JW: Now that was in, oh gosh, I don't know. That's the last time I saw him. Yeah, he was quite a guy too, a really nice guy.
MC: Well, we're getting little groups of, of fellows together and hopefully taping like, just like this, and doing some filming and sharing some more stories. Every time we talk with somebody a few more episodes come forward. Just like, you explained to us what that big white arrow was on the side of the boatworks. All of us were trying to guess.
JW: Well, the reason for that was some of the people that come in or even the fishermen, or strangers park there. Well, when the big truck come in for delivering to the shipyard, well they couldn't get in. So they had to walk all the way in and find out who's car it was so they decided to put that on there on account of that. Which, which was a good thing. So that stopped them from doing that then.
MC: Served its purpose.
JW: And that's the reason for that.
MC: There must have been another sign just at the bottom of that.
JW: Yeah, there was a sign, yeah. No parking from, you know, from here to there or whatever, to that sign, that's why the arrow was there, you know.
MC: Did you know that your little parking space sign is still there?
JW: Yeah. Is it still there. Did you look at it?
MC: If you look really carefully, you can see parts of each of the letters. Doris' really shows up because hers was painted right onto a piece of wood.
JW: Who's spot was that? I forget who's spot that was, that left. But there was Leif, he was far in. Allen Nesbit and Adrian and myself and Doris, that's about all that could park there.
MC: Is that right.
JW: The rest of them parked on the other side, where you've got that, where you've got your office there, on that side.
MC: So you got priority parking did you?
JW: Well, I parked there for.... Allen Steves, he parked, yeah, Allen Steves used to park beside me, that's right. So. It was the only place you could park. Years ago you couldn't park there. 'Cause you had to park on the dyke. 'Cause it was all open there, you know, 'til they pumped the sand in.
MC: So it was quite marshy in that area?
JW: It was marshy, yeah, you couldn't come in. You had to bring all the parts from the cannery along the boardwalk. Or what ever, and bring them from the cannery.
MC: Bring them in that way. You know the area behind the boatworks, the area between the fence and behind that, what we call the Kishi boatworks there, Richmond Boatworks. We understand that in there, there were a number of homes, lodgings.
JW: Yeah, all along in there. I think there was homes all along that dyke.
MC: Jim Kishi explained that his home was right in behind there.
JW: Right behind there, sure.
MC: And that Lanky, Lanky was born in one. Just in behind there as well.
JW: Further down, oh yeah. What you call it, had that boat shop too. Shin's, Shin's dad.
MC: Nakade.
JW: Yeah, he had that 'til they were transferred out of here.
MC: Oh yes, in the war years.
JW: In the war in '42 or '43, '43. His dad was in that boat shop then.
MC: Was he?
JW: And then Kishi, was I think was over below, if I'm not mistaken.
MC: [There was] a different location.
JW: Because the reason I know is because Shin told me that his dad was building boats in there.
MC: We hoping to talk to Shin in the next week or so.
JW: Yeah, that be, he'll be quite a guy to talk to.
MC: He did a lot of work, just like yourself. Shipwright work.
JW: Oh yeah, he did a lot of work. He was a good worker and very experienced.
MC: Where would he have learned his trade?
JW: From his dad.
MC: From his dad.
JW: They had, before that they had the Stoltz Boatwork. Shin was telling me, on the dyke, on 7th. They built that, they built that shop there. Its not there anymore.
MC: No.
JW: I don't know if you seen it or anything but.
MC: In pictures.
JW: It was a little bigger than the one that's over at Britannia. Cause we used to have two boats in there going, building, when we were building them in the boat, in that shop.
MC: Okay. There was an old store called Hong Wo, do you remember that?
JW: That's the old store.
MC: Yes.
JW: Close to Nelson's, the other side of....
MC: Its not there now.
JW: Oh no.
MC: But you remember that do you?
JW: Oh yeah, we used to go over there and get our coffee you know, for our coffee room, and what not.
MC: So it was like a general grocery store.
JW: It was a general store, everything. They had equipment for fishermen, plumbing. Just like a hardware and grocery store together, general store.
MC: Right. There used to be one in Ladner, when I was growing up in Ladner. There was one called Innis & Fenton. Do you remember that name?
JW: No, no.
MC: The same kind of thing with the old wood floor, and I can remember the funny old cash register and shelves, wooden shelves with all sorts of unusual things on them. So I imagine that this Hong Wo store was much like that.
JW: Yeah, it was. Yeah, the old wooden floor.
MC: Soup to nuts. Well, gosh now I've taken us right up to noon time so I'm going to turn this off.
END OF INTERVIEW
